Darwinism (Evolution) vs. Intelligent Design

[This was supposed to go after Sammy's last post, but Josh got to replying first.]

Dark_of_the_Night wrote:your trying to pass off my point as off topic but its a valid point, its a scientific law that nothing can come from nothing. so somewhere along the line SOMETHING that defies science had to intervene.

How about something that defies evolution, not science. After all, science/logical reasoning is a part of this world, and thus a part of God's creation. You kind of need to use science/logic in a debate anyway, unless you're purely discussing matters of faith with someone else who is also faithful. Obviously, you can't really throw faith at someone who only understands scientific reason if you want him to come to terms with your views. They just won't see anything in it. So fight fire with fire! {Personal opinion.)

(YAR, RIGHT. BACK ON TOPIC.)

Josh - Yeah, scientifically proving that evolution is God's doing is pretty hard to prove. At the same time, it's admittedly hard to answer the question, "so where and how did evolution all start?" Sure, there's the Big Bang and all that, and the absolute right conditions on earth, and the little spark that caused life to form (my guess is that it all started with something you'd hardly recognize as living; the idea on this page is interesting). Still, even with all of those billions of years going by, it's pretty hard to imagine the universe and life creating itself. The evidence behind the theories are just too thin. But: imagine a (possibly scientifically explainable!) outside source, beyond just the universe. Call it God if you want, whatever. Who knows what it is, what form it takes, how to even form it into an idea! Maybe science will find out when your great-grandchildren are dying! That would make the whole thing a little more believable. It's plausible by science, isn't it? Ever consider that we're a speck on a banana that's being experimented on in some unimaginably colossal alien chemistry class?

Sammy - I don't think that whatever Darwin said about his evolution theory matters much to the evolution theory itself. Whether or not he said or believed that there is God and he created everything, evolution can still stand alone without it, unharmed. It's like if I found a new mathematical idea: x + 1 = 2, so x = 1. Then I say, well actually, it's wrong. I lied. Yet, whether I believe I lied or not doesn't matter--people can still go in and check to make sure it's true.

i never said darwin denounced evolution in his manuscript, although he DID denounce it later because evolution is based on the fact that there is nothing smaller then a blood cell in a human body, DNA is smaller then a blood cell, therefor his equations collapse and it is impossible, he recognized this at a later date, i said that darwin state a god created the universe and then we evolved, and josh, you are GUESSING that darwin didn't publish what he thought, you have no proof on it, and actually it is relovent, since most tie in the big bang with the theory of evolution and since we're talking about creationism that is the CREATION of the universe, therefore we must speak of the beginning of the universe, so if anyone can tell me scientifically where the universe came from and where every single material was created i will give them a victory. until then i still use it as a valid point.

Dark_of_the_Night wrote:i never said darwin denounced evolution in his manuscript, although he DID denounce it later because evolution is based on the fact that there is nothing smaller then a blood cell in a human body, DNA is smaller then a blood cell, therefor his equations collapse and it is impossible, he recognized this at a later date, i said that darwin state a god created the universe and then we evolved, and josh, you are GUESSING that darwin didn't publish what he thought, you have no proof on it, and actually it is relovent, since most tie in the big bang with the theory of evolution and since we're talking about creationism that is the CREATION of the universe, therefore we must speak of the beginning of the universe, so if anyone can tell me scientifically where the universe came from and where every single material was created i will give them a victory. until then i still use it as a valid point.

No, evolution is based on the idea that
A. Genes are passed along to offspring
and
B. Mutations occur

I'm simply saying that it could have happened that way; he was suppressed by the Catholic Church from letting his findings out.

Finally, I have two points to make. It is not on topic. We are dealing with creationism and ID in the sense of organisms, not the universe. I refuse to make this point again. Also, just because we don't know how something happened, doesn't mean we can fill in the gaps with an even less understood idea.

Just reminding you all, the debate is about Intelligent Design, not Creationism. These things are different.

Intelligent design is the assertion that "certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection."

Sammy has been saying creationism, I'm simply replying to her points. And it says creationism in the OP.